The Nebula Awards

Steve Berman Interview

Interviewed by Charles Tan on November 18 2008

In 2007, Steve Berman’s novel Vintage: A Ghost Story was nominated for the Andre Norton Best Young Adult SF&F novel award.

Thanks for agreeing to do the interview. First off, let’s start with your novel Vintage. What was the inspiration for the book?

Honest answer? I was in Los Angeles doing a bit of travel writing (yes, they do have an award show for gay porn performers) and I met this goth boy. I was instantly smitten and we spent an amazing night together. When I came back to NJ, I started writing a book to win his heart. The first scene of Vintage has, for the most part, little changed from when I wrote it back in 1997. Of course, we never spoke or saw each other again and, what began as an infatuation of the goth lifestyle became a cautionary tale with that subculture’s fixation on the macabre.

Can you tell us the story of how Vintage finally got published? What were some of the difficulties you ran into?

It was a 10 year journey. In the early years there was some interest in the manuscript by a large NY publisher—and the editor offered me terrific advice that I am forever grateful for. But then came rejection and rejection and I eventually stopped shopping the book around. No luck with agents either (a pattern that repeats to this day).

Then, at a BEA, Lawrence Schimel introduced me to Greg Herren, who was acquiring titles for Haworth Press’ new line of queer speculative fiction. Greg enjoyed the book and made an offer. Two years later, it’s 2007 and Vintage released. Unfortunately, by the time the book was nominated for the Andre Norton Award, Haworth had been sold to a publisher uninterested in fiction. Vintage was out-of-print in less than a year.

I’ve owned a small press since 2001 when I released my first short story collection. Lethe Press began reprinting a fair number of orphaned authors, including award-winning gay titles. So, just prior to the selection of the finalists for the Norton, I brought back Vintage.

At what point did you consider yourself a professional writer?

There were two points that are really memorable for me. In 1994, I had two Lovecraftian articles published in gaming magazines (Dragon and White Wolf). They pay was great and both issues released in October. I was so proud and had the covers and interior pages framed.

The other would be when I had sold the third short story needed to obtain active membership in SFWA. I think that would be in 2005 with “Wagers of Gold Mountain” to Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling’s Coyote Road anthology. That was the second story of mine the pair had bought, so it also made me believe that the first sale wasn’t a fluke. 

What was the worst writing advice you received? The best?

Okay, this may seem odd but I have one answer for both:

In maybe 1997 or ‘98, I telephoned one of my more favorite authors in the world, a woman who wrote what I consider the most perfectly constructed novel. Ellen Kushner. The book: Swordspoint. I phoned her at her day job at the radio station and asked her for novel-writing advice. How naive of me. But she was very sweet and told me: “Make sure that your first novel is perfect.”

Seems simple, right? And it is good advice because, as she went on to say, “People will judge you by that book.” And really I know now you should always strive to make your books, first to current, be the best they can possibly be.

But it was the word ‘perfect’ that came to haunt me. Trying to write perfection paralyzed me. I obsessed over passages, over individual words, to the point where I became despondent that this book would never be perfect and should never be written. And for several years after hearing this advice I stopped writing Vintage.

Years later when I met Ellen in person, she laughed when I reminded her of this advice. And she sympathized with what had happened afterward.

Which are you more comfortable writing: short stories or novels? Why?

Short stories. Even though I’ve finished two novels (Vintage was actually not the first completed, that would be a very bad low fantasy called Goblinthorn, which was rejected by one publisher and relegated to the trunk forevermore), I struggle with the form to this very day. Perhaps I still hear Ellen’s words in my head and they fill me with dread. Perhaps I just prefer to abandon longer work rather than face the anxiety of forging ahead. But novels terrify me.

Short stories seem playful and entertaining. At least, at first. As I’ve tried to become a better writer I have also become a far slower writer. The last story I sold to Ellen & Terry was agonizing.

Do you ever get tired of the question “is this autobiographical”? Similarly, do you get tired of people (like me) asking you questions about homosexuality? To put it another way, do you prefer people to talk more about your writing in general as opposed to your sexuality and how it affects your writing?

Believe it or not, I rarely get asked if my work is autobiographical. Maybe people assume it without asking. I don’t know. Certainly several of my characters are facets of myself or people that I know. But I think the real me would be a very dull character to read.

The other question relates to whether or not I see myself as a gay writer or a writer who happens to be gay. I know many authors who dislike the former label. Most days I actually prefer it, but there are times when I realize that what I write is not embraced by the vast majority of gay male readers. So I become frustrated and wish I could abandon homosexuality altogether. But I can’t. It’s not a matter of identity—of me referring to myself as a ‘gay man.’ It’s because my personal orientation affects not only who I am attracted to but also who captivates my imagination. And my imagination prefers to tell stories that involve same-gender pairings.

When you write, do you ever feel guilt for tackling or not tackling homosexual characters/ interests?

Never guilt. I am aware that my readers may well be struggling with the same emotional issues that plague me (including moments when you feel almost disgust at being the Other). So I have to walk a careful path sometimes. For instance, in the story “Thimbleriggery and Fledglings” that will be in The Beastly Bride coming out from Viking Children’s Press in 2010, I retell Swan Lake from Odile’s perspective if she were a lesbian teen. And while I was writing the story, I was not in the best emotional place and so the original ending was Odile committing suicide. And minutes after I finished I realized what a horrible thing I had done--especially when Vintage is very much an anti-suicide book. Not to mention the cliche of a girl killing herself because she’s different. And so I knew I had to change the story, to change what was offered to Odile was hope rather than despair.

Currently, one movement when it comes to spec fic magazines and anthologies is gender equality or giving more opportunities for female writers in what seems to be a male-dominated field. Do you feel it would benefit the industry should a similar provision be given for homosexual writers or at least spec fic stories that deal with homosexual issues?

Well, I think the gender-issue is more important because of the numbers (% of women reading spec fic) and GLBT individuals might make up, say 10-12% of readers. I think the number of queer-themed stories (as well as tales that feature incidental queer characters) is on the rise. I’m happy for that, of course. What I have noticed is that the field remains ethnically-dominated by white writers and characters. I would love to see more support for the Carl Brandon Society.

Did you ever feel ghettoed for being either a spec fic author or a gay author (or both)?

Oh, yes. This has been a sore topic of mine for ages. There is no easy answer. The spec fic world and the gay literature world are two very different dimensions with little crossover (Jim Grimsley and Samuel Delany may be the sole travelers between realms). Of the two, the spec fic is greatly more embracing: I know more gay readers who are closeted that they enjoy fantasy and science-fiction than the reverse. That’s because gay culture is very strict - the idolized are the young, beautiful, straight-acting and cool. Liking rocketships and giant monsters is not cool.

So when I attend a gay literary conference like Saints & Sinners in New Orleans, I’m an oddity. And when I go to gay bookstores, the spec fic shelf is the smallest one (if they even have one). And the gay media isn’t really interested in spec fic unless it’s vampire-related paranormal romance. I’m more likely to draw a bigger crowd at a reading held at a genre bookstore like Borderlands than at a gay bookstore. 
But then, if I continue writing spec fic stories featuring gay characters and themes, am I limiting my sales to the spec fic readership? And the answer, of course, is yes.

How did you get your start editing anthologies?

One of the writers I’ve published through Lethe is Toby Johnson, who is very well-known in the gay spirituality field. We were chatting on the phone one afternoon and I mentioned how so many short stories with gay characters were depressing. I wanted to read a book just filled with inspirational fiction. He loved the idea and quickly we realized this was something we could edit ourselves. A year or so later we released Charmed Lives: Gay Spirit in Storytelling which went on to become a finalist for the Lambda Literary Award for best anthology.

After that, I approached Greg Herren at Haworth and sold him on the idea of GLBT-themed fantasy stories involving fairy lore. That turned into So Fey (also a victim of Haworth’s demise).

Since then I’ve done a young-adult anthology for Hasbro, Inc.’s children’s fiction line, Mirrorstone Books (Magic in the Mirrorstone: Tales of Fantasy) and started two new annual series from Lethe, Best Gay Stories and Wilde Stories, the latter focusing on gay speculative fiction reprints.

Is it difficult for you to switch between your “writer hat” and your “editor hat”?

Not really. They really are such different creatures. I regret that I do not have enough time in the day to write my own fiction, edit other people’s work, run the small press, and work the 9 to 5 job that pays the bills.

Author Holly Black is a big factor in your life. Can you share with us how you originally met?

I’ve been close friends with Holly since ‘94. A gaming buddy of mine started a magazine, d8. Holly sent in her resume for editor and I bullied my friend into hiring me not her. So I stole her first job in publishing. Then I resigned before the first issue released--at 25, I wanted to be a writer not an editor. So Holly was brought on as an assistant editor and we met for the very first time at a gaming convention. I remember she was so cute with her earrings fashioned from 8-sided dice.

Maybe a week or two later I was hired by a medical publishing company in New York City, and the human resources drone was introducing me to the office staff and there, in production, was Holly. We shouted and hugged. The surprised HR drone remarked that we must be old friends and, laughing, we told her No, we’d only met once before. And for the months that followed at the office, Holly and I would talk about writing incessantly. And thus began the best of friendships.

How did RPGs impact your life?

Heh, obviously some of my answer has been given throughout the interview. I still game, still find the act of Game Mastering a wonderful exercise in storytelling. It does remind me how I’m very much a geek at heart. I recommend you and your readers look at a recent article I did for Strange Horizons: Lingua Rpga and the Writer.

What elements in being part of an RPG do you carry with you as a writer (if applicable)?

Again, I think the SH article covers that best. 

What’s your favorite plush toy? Which is your favorite Cthulhu plush?

Hah! Now these are the toughest of questions. For sentimental reasons, I would say that a large plush owl my parents bought me as a child would be the answer. However, I’m quite fond of a recent zombie cat with a zipper on its head so you can unzip and feel its plush brain. Or maybe it’s my Teddy Scare with the broken heart. As for the Lovecraftian one, I’d have to choose the Gug which is just bizarre. I keep hoping they’ll make a Glaaki plush.

What projects are you currently working on?

Holly has given me the sage advice that the best thing an author can do to support and promote his first book is to write another. So, despite a very slow start I am working on another young adult novel, this one involving a gay couple that is dealing with some relationship issues when their involvement in a French MMORPG turns the book into a horrorific bit of magical realism.

But I can’t resist the lure of short fiction. In August, I released a new collection, Second Thoughts. It was a relief to finish but reminded me there are always new stories to tell.

Steve Berman sold his first spec fic story when he was a teenager. Of course, when he received his contributor copy of the Midwestern magazine, he discovered the editor had removed all fantastical elements. He survived this disappointment to go on and publish a novel, over 80 articles, essays, and short stories, and edit five anthologies. He has been a finalist for the Andre Norton, Gaylactic Spectrum, Golden Crown Literary, and Lambda Literary Awards. At one time he bought books professionally. Now it’s only a hobby. He lives in southern New Jersey with a cat umimpressed by words.

Charles Tan is a speculative fiction fan from the Philippines. He has lots of online doppelgangers, including a Singaporean politician and a Filipino basketball player, but people should be warned that the “real” Charles Tan is a bibliophile who stalks his favorite authors. His blog, Bibliophile Stalker is updated with daily content including book reviews, interviews, and essays. He is also a contributor for SFF Audio.

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